Shining Tea Room

Another Thought on Masculinity

This topic contains 8 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mei Mei 2 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #1459098
    Profile photo of Mei
    Mei
    Participant

    Beloved maidens –

    Recently, I was speaking to a friend who is a De’anist, and is slowly warming up to the idea of feminine essentialism. In the De’anic community outside of Chelouranya there was a mascül who was very involved, but appears to have recently left De’anism because he felt that Aristasians/Chelouranyan feminine essentialism was harmful to men and perhaps even misandric.

    Now, I have not seen the post in which he supposedly decided to leave, and am currently searching for it.

    However, my friend and I were discussing it, and as she is quite young, was concerned that perhaps it was true that feminine essentialism was sexist or harmful. She also wondered how men could exist – if they’re wrong in some manner, Dea likely wouldn’t have created them, so how do they exist?

    Here was my response. It was more musing than anything, and it was also very short in its explanation. I am very much open to correction or further comments (in fact, that is my hope in posting this! I wanted to see how other maids thought of it.):

    “If something has occurred, it has occurred due to the will of Dea.
    In my opinion, the terms femininity and masculinity are socially constructed. Femininity as a term regarding beauty, harmony, gentleness, love, kindness, etc. This is how femininity has always been viewed.

    On the other hand, masculinity tends to be affiliated with a sort of hardness, defensiveness or even offensiveness depending on the situation. Ideally, masculinity should be Vikhelic and Thamelic, but it became severely Vikhelic.

    This is where I’ll bring Chelouranya in. We believe Sai Herthe has two sexes – melini and chelani. The melini are, to some extent, what the ideal men would be. Still a feminine sex, but Thamelic in nature. Melini also are the sex who participate in war when needed (though there is no rule against chelani doing the same). They tend to participate in politics more often, and are supposed to be chivalrous. They’re like the protectors.

    On the other hand, chelani are similar to the “ideal woman” here in Telluria. They are Sushuric – loving, sweet, gentle, spiritual.

    Obviously there can be some overlap, but that’s the general idea.

    I think that ideally, the femin and mascul of Telluria should be similar to the chelani and melini of Sai Herthe in terms of personality traits. It’s humanity that has decided that men must be Vikhelic, and in my opinion, feminine essentialism seeks to resolve this by bringing men into a Thamelic role. That way, women can positively flourish as the Sushuric sex.”

    Thoughts?

  • #1461002

    I think someone much more intelligent than I am should probably speak to social gender roles and their origin (Lady Aquila? Sushuri-chei? Miss Sorciere? Tasukete kudasaimasen ka?), however, I must say that masculi, even in their most ideal form, are fundamentally different from melini. We are not Vikhelic by nature, more than any axial being must be Vikhelic in order to be an axial being. Masculi are, no matter what else they are or aren’t. It isn’t always bad! And it needn’t necessarily limit them. I know masculi who are very nurturing parents and orderly homekeepers and humble, gentle people – but they are all these things in a Vikhelic way. I can’t even put my finger on it sometimes, but I feel it and so do they.

    I struggled for a time with the issue of gender, because I knew that I didn’t quite fit the ideal of a Sushuric gender, but the idea of being a mascul filled me with horror, even though I like them as people. Discovering the existence of melini was an enormous relief.

    One final thought on the man who left Deanism with such bitter words. You say quite involved – I imagine he was trying, consciously or not, to worm his way right into the center of Deanism. Of course, that was not possible. In West Telluria one grows accustomed to thinking of very patriarchal situations, such as all the CEOs being masculi or most of the big films having masculine leads or simply masculi talking three times as often as femini, as normal and neutral. I can’t imagine being asked to sit to the side and listen sat well at all with a West Tellurian mascul. You might mention this to your friend and ask her to take his accusations with a grain of salt. You can get a lovely pink one big enough to cook a pizza on at most stores selling home goods. That might be big enough.

  • #1461052
    Profile photo of Petite Sorcière
    Petite Sorcière
    Participant

    As I see it, the idea of Aristasia/Chelouranya being “sexist” rather misses the point. Whether its ideas regarding schizomorphic (male/female) worlds are fair or unfair to them could be open to debate, but the unfairness, if it existed, would not be to men in particular but to both men and women.

    If the gentleman in question was part of a non-Chelouranyan movement why did he leave it because of his views about Chelouranya? It seems a bit like leaving Belgium in protest against France.

    Non-Chelouranyan Deanists might have a “position” regarding men but as a group Chelouranyans never have had, nor would it ever have made any sense to have had. To say what men (or women come to that) should or should not do would be an impertinence on our part (both in the colloquial and the literal sense).

    As for the Feminine Essentialism of The Feminine Universe, that is written – at least in theory – from a more Tellurian point of view but I am not sure that it contains any kind of prescription about the role of men. It does propose that the masculine principle became unduly dominant in Telluria, and it seems to me hard to argue that it didn’t – unless one thinks that masculine dominance is the proper order of things (which would take the “unduly” part out of it).

    And, not being particularly concerned with Tellurian “politics” I wouldn’t even say there was necessarily anything wrong with that. It is a point of view. It has been held by many people who weren’t all bad people by any means. I wouldn’t go around sticking “isms” on it. Neither do I have any particular affection for it. But then I am not a Tellurian so it isn’t really my affair.

  • #1462888
    Profile photo of Mei
    Mei
    Participant

    Rosamunda-chei, I humbly beg your pardon! I did not mean to say that mascul and melini could ever be the same, and I know I worded that quite poorly. I suppose I was pointing more towards the “protective” aspect that each may hold depending on the dominant gender roles.

    I strongly agree with your statement regarding the need for a large grain of salt. This mascül certainly caused a ruckus in and about the community, and I cannot say I am sad to see him gone. He very much so seemed to want to speak over the ladies in the movement, which disturbed me greatly. I’ve always believed that even if Tellurian De’anism has co-ed congregations, there MUST be a priority on the all-feminine congregation.

    Petite Sorciere, I quite agree! The furstrating thing was that he took Chelouranyan ideas quite out of context, and then left because some maids, such as my friend, quite agree with certain Chelouranyan ideas or Feminine Essentialism.

    Irregardless, I wanted to see your views – my friend has actually been considering logging onto Shining World, and quite related to everything, but this event seemed to bother her a bit.

    In Amity,
    Mei

  • #1475215

    My pardon is yours with all my heart, honored Mei-san. As for Shining World and Chelouranya as a whole – it is primarily a place for people who are, from the perspective of Tellurians, aliens. In the Motherland, and in this protectorate of the Motherland, the presence of a mascul would be wrong. I suppose insofar as Tellurians are aware of us, they tend to find us rather strange and out of place as well. That doesn’t mean we are strange, or that Dea didn’t intend us to be what we are, it just means we aren’t in our usual context. I can’t even blame a mascul for finding our presence on this planet a bit alarming. We’re a bit alarmed by it, too.

    As for your young friend, I suppose the pertinent question is, does she feel the need for a refuge from Telluria?

  • #1482296
    Profile photo of Mei
    Mei
    Participant

    Rosamunda-chei, I agree wholeheartedly. Part of my frustration with the situation was that… Well, why does a mascül feel the need to have a say about our culture, when it does not pertain to him?

    As for my friend, she has indeed been looking into Chelouranya – thank Dea, she has not been driven away from the beauty of our inherent femininity by such tasteless discourse.

    In amity,
    – Mei

  • #1520871
    Profile photo of Venus
    Venus
    Participant

    らヤチ,

    My apologies for my late replies. I do have the link to the mascul in question, but I will not post it unless anyone wants it out of fear of being rude.

    I am only slightly familiar with this person. He did not seem to grasp female essentialism and if I remember correctly he attempted to add men to Deanism. Deanism is a beautiful religion, to add to it to make it fit one’s world view doesn’t make any sense to me. It seemed this person wasn’t comfortable with the religion and tried to bend it to fit his masculine worldview, which contradicts the very basis of Deanism.

    Like Mei, this is a mascul I will not miss, but it is sad to see another man not understand female essentialism. Masculs seem to fear matriarchal society and religion but are perfectly comfortable with patriarchal societies and religions.

    But alas, these are Tellurian issues. I will not speak anymore than that. But it is sad to see this happen.

    In amity,
    Venus

  • #1521572

    How strange! It’s not as though he had a dearth of patriarchal religions to choose from! One wonders that he did not seek them out instead.

  • #1522889
    Profile photo of Mei
    Mei
    Participant

    Miss Venus,

    It sounds as though you’ve also made your way onto the Tellurian De’anic blogosphere.

    If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion, I have found that it is far better to avoid it.

    I sought out Tellurian De’anists for the community – who does not wish for a faith community?

    But I have found that it is more filled with Tellurian discourse and masculs trying to force their way in to be in any way a healthy environment.

    And it is getting far, far worse – I shudder to think of some of the things I have seen there, let alone to poison the minds of my most honored sisters. I know I must have faith that Great Dea will protect Her faith and keep it from becoming polluted, but in the meanwhile, I am taking the advice of my betters and am stepping away entirely.

    Just a further sort of update based on current events. It is not worth it to poison oneself by becoming involved.

    Please excuse my rambles! I have just gotten back from a long trip, and a rather spiritual one at that, which I hope to mention in a new thread a bit later on.

    In amity (and take care),
    Mei

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